Fueling our own Ignorance

Why must the discourse in this country stoop so low as to immediately dismiss comments from Obama's pastor (reverend Wright) without considering where the fallacy lies inside.  Can't we have an educated discussion without resorting to the political traps that have long since dominated our system?


Clearly, 9/11 was the scheme of horrific madmen who used the political and economic situation in the Middle East for their own political gain.  Clearly, mass killings on any level are pure, unadulterated evil.  


But why can't we have an honest discussion about it without resorting to political cliche and a stubborn refusal to accept any self-blame.  Our policies in the world will always have unintended consequences, and an honest discussion of those policies is what is required.

As liberals, many of us liked to make the point that back in the 1980s, the United States supplied Saddam Hussein with weapons (including chemical weapons) to wage war against our then enemy, Iran.  Prior to that, the United States supplied the Shah of Iran with countless weapons systems and ignored the obvious problems facing that country - that he was a dictator whose rise fueled the corrupt and the elite of his country.

Recently, we've come across comments from Senator Obama's pastor.  While put incredibly crudely, the point he was making was that 9/11 was the fault of America's own policies.  This, too, misses the point.  We are not the only complex and flawed actors in the world, and the history of American intervention in the world is grossly exaggerated.  Yes, we dropped a nuclear bomb in Japan, but that was to scare Japan in ending a war that they seemed to be unwilling to concede.  Yes, we supported Israel (a policy with which I agree) to the detriment of the Palestinians.


The cause of 9/11 was a combination of historical arrogance in American foreign policy (which we seem too eager to forget) and incredible naivety emanating from foreigners about the scope of American power.  Take, for example, Iran.  Their hatred of the United States stems from the fact that in 1952, we overthrew Iranian President Mohammad Mosaddeq for his plan to nationalize the Iranian oil industry.  This plan, in conjunction with the fact that he received a great deal of support from the communist party in Iran fueled fears of a Soviet satellite state in Iran - which led the CIA into action.  We overthrew a democratic government and installed the Shah of Iran, a dictator who we thought would be favorable to the US.  While he certainly provided us with oil, he was all to eager to blame problems within his country on the US while holding onto billions in oil revenues and hiking prices whenever politically feasible.  Eventually, a combination of pro-democracy forces, Shi'ite conservatives and students overthew the government and it led to the supremacy of the Ayatollah.  Obviously, this history is obviously far more complex than a 1-paragraph blurb.


If you ask Americans about the history of US-Iranian relations, I doubt they'd be able to mention a single thing I just said.  In their view, Iran irrationally hates the US because they are a country of 'hate.'  I'm simplifying, of course, but few can recount the true history.


If you ask Iranians about the history of US-Iranian relations, they'd be too happy to recount an exaggerated and distorted version of American influence in the days of the shah, and how America controlled his every move.  In short, in their view, the shah was the cause of their problems and the US controlled the every move of the shah.  Of course this is lunacy - the US had to beg the shah to lower oil prices in the late 1970s, a move which he refused to do.


The point, of course, is that the legacy of 9/11 is more complex than Fox news makes it out to be.  Many of our flawed policies in the region (which were distorted for political gain by Al Qaeda and similar organizations) clearly had an impact on 9/11.  We are not the only flawed actors.  Clearly, there are far worse actors in the world.  And in my opinion, the United States has been the greatest hope for democracy, equality and economic rights that the world has ever seen.  But that does not make us perfect.


Why must it always be so simplified?  Can't we raise the level of debate in this country?



Display:


Won't happen (none / 0)

Because in this country, we don't like to think for 30 minutes when someone can package all of our thoughts into easy 5 second bite size messages.

The internet and television ensure that we will NEVER get to a point where people can have the sort of reasoned discussion that you mentioned above.  


by highgrade on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 12:14:17 PM EST

This IS NOT more complex than 1 paragraph (none / 0)

Take, for example, Iran.  Their hatred of the United States stems from the fact that in 1952, we overthrew Iranian President Mohammad Mosaddeq for his plan to nationalize the Iranian oil industry.  This plan, in conjunction with the fact that he received a great deal of support from the communist party in Iran fueled fears of a Soviet satellite state in Iran - which led the CIA into action.  We overthrew a democratic government and installed the Shah of Iran, a dictator who we thought would be favorable to the US.

First of all, since you just wrote the paragraph,
it is hard to see why you think it is more complex
than 1 paragraph.  Second of all, you simply don't
know what you mean by "favorable to the US".
What you actually mean is "favorable to the multi-
national oil companies who felt that the profits
from those oil-fields should go to themselves instead
of to the people of Iran".

The only problem with the paragraph you wrote
is simply that it is missing a final topic
sentence: "This obviously proves that the US
government has always cared more about the wealth
of corporations than about democracy."

We are not going to win any elections by telling
Americans that they as a people have never been
the champions of democracy that they thought they
were.  But that doesn't make it any less true.
The fact that MyDD is reacting to this truth with
all this condemnation makes it worse than the
mainstream media, to which it was supposed to be
a corrective.  The mass/lemming behavior here
is going to make for great dissertations in both
journalism AND psychology, RealSoonNow.


by IvoteMay6th on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 01:31:41 PM EST

Re: Fueling our own Ignorance (none / 0)

i thought the perpetrator,osama bin laden, had issued other reasons for the attack: namely, that islam should rule the world...hmmmm...he did not say it was our foreign policy...hmmmmmm


by californiarose on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 03:15:37 PM EST

Re: Fueling our own Ignorance (2.00 / 1)

he did not say it was our foreign policy

Yes, he did -- he specifically cited our military presence in Saudi Arabia and our support for the Israelis in explaining his reasons for 9/11. Or has Dubya convinced you that he "hates our freedom"?


by RP McMurphy on Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 04:05:42 PM EST


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